Jan about PEC: Hanneke Schipper, July 3, 2026

by Anton Theunissen | 7 jul 2026, 06:07

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8 Comments
  1. John Berrevoets

    “The tragedy of Hanneke Schipper-Spanninga is not that she was a malicious actor”

    The problem is that she is, but you also fall for the inexplicable fairy tales that she consciously presents to you. And you then look for a story that she consciously tells you and then you arrive at the above sentence and she has you exactly where she wants you.

    You have started to believe in the fairy tale.

    Reply
    1. Jan van der Zanden

      Well, maybe you didn't read the article properly? What makes you believe that I believe in her fairy tale?
      I am just detonating the complete fairy tale of Mrs. Mr. Skipper.

      Reply
  2. Arnoud

    “Her performance during the interrogation was a masterclass in erecting a legalistic smokescreen, intended to conceal the fact that in reality no material weighing of interests and fundamental rights has yet begun. No malicious intent, no weak spine, no emotional Rule of Rescue victim - but the perfect civil servant-lawyer of a system that has convinced itself that legal-procedural perfection can replace moral and factual/material consideration.”

    Eichman anyone?

    Reply
    1. Jan van der Zanden

      Certainly. And Hannah Arendt.

      Reply
  3. Willem

    Consciously or unconsciously, I don't know, but anyone who puts an upside-down pyramid on its side has still not solved a problem. It becomes ridiculous when the pyramid layer lying on his side passionately states that 'they' still don't see what the solution is.

    This is all imagery, and not the best imagery, but don't feel the need to nitpick this entire article, so... imagery.

    Two points then:
    Point 1: deontology as you put it is not deontology but tyranny. Yes, I can say that too: saying that the decisions made at the time involved incorrect deontological thinking. Tyranny Jan, no deontology. Just look in your philosophical dictionary.

    Punt 2:

    You say the solution lies here:

    'always calculate the costs and benefits using qalys, dalys or another intersubjective method. Only in this way can a meaningful conversation about “broad considerations” and “proportionality” take place, without easily resorting to the blackmail of full beds or having to give in to the emotional lure of the Rule of Rescue, which Orr & Wolff has warned against.'

    But Jan, don't you know that qaly's daly's etc. are theoretical constructs that you can give all values ​​in advance and thus arrive at any answer you want in advance?

    Epidemilogy is not a crystal ball. Tragically, the deaths can only be counted accurately afterwards.

    And that is why in situations like 2020 the following applies: 'What you do not want to happen to you, do not do to someone else either'

    Reply
    1. Jan van der Zanden

      Willem,
      Thank you for your sharp response.
      I'll just go through the points.

      1. There is no arguing about the choice of imagery. I like that my choice provokes interesting contradictory reactions. Apparently this choice has a stimulating effect on both supporters and opponents...
      2. Deontology in particular has an air of tyranny in the philosophical discussion. After all, deontology prescribes that a virtue is always a virtue, regardless of its outcomes. That indeed smacks of tyranny. It is not without reason that there is an ongoing debate about consequentialism versus deontology.
      Kant's absolutism says: “you should never lie, not even to a murderer who asks where your friend is hiding.” Well, that's a bit problematic, isn't it?
      3. You are certainly correct that the Qaly/Daly does not offer 0.1% accuracy. However, the correction values ​​(adjusted) have been tested by many field studies. That is why you can determine adjustments appreciated by the general public via tables with an accuracy of less than approximately 20%. That is why a Qaly calculation, despite its inaccuracy, does fairly accurately indicate the (mega!) disproportionality of, for example, a curfew or a lockdown. Exactly as the WHO has always written and as Marianne Zwagerman has so aptly put it in her dor-hout column.
      This numerical substantiation goes further than the emotionally experienced disproportionality: it also indicates the order of magnitude of the disproportionality in a figure. Not 0.1% accurate, but accurate within the order of magnitude. And if there is a factor of 600 between costs and benefits {as I argue here with regard to the curfew}, then a sensible decision is up for grabs. During the “intelligent lockdown” that ratio was approximately 75. Also impossible to ignore!
      If the cost/benefit ratio is close to 1 (e.g. between 0.7 and 1.3), this calculation will not help you make a hard choice; on the other hand, it gives a clear indication that whatever choice you make, it is in any case not disproportionate.
      4. “What you do not want to happen to you” is a typical deontological postulate. That is absolutely a (Biblical) obligation on an individual level. But you cannot apply this at a macro level, because “you” and “you” are individuals and in a crisis there is “we” and “us”. And that is why this deontological commandment in a mass crisis will certainly also lead to collective moral injustice and suboptimal outcomes for society as a whole. Perhaps theologians once wrote something about this...

      I hope you have read Orr & Wolff's article by now. I would like to hear your deontologically substantiated criticism of this….

      Reply
  4. Ivo

    A valuable 'intersubjective method' requires that views are also taken into account and taken into account in advance that challenge the initially obvious assumptions, positions and assumptions. Mutual understanding is also important for previously unwelcome views and opinions, especially if they appear to be quite broadly based. That didn't happen and it still doesn't happen. What seems obvious is not absolutely true, even if it seems absolutely true within the existing frameworks that we draw up for research, approach and policy.
    If scientific expertise, with demonstrable stature, makes statements that are immediately labeled and dismissed as mis- and disinformation without room for explanation and debate, you may wonder whether this is ethically and morally responsible. How intersubjective are we being? And how purely scientific? And what do we actually 'calculate'?
    To this day, certain views are pushed aside. The outcome of the corona survey regarding 'training for possibly. next pandemics' is therefore quite doubtful if we continue to look too one-sided. But there is always a chance... there will still be interrogations and perhaps in the course of this there will be more monkeys coming out of their sleeves, which will broaden the general picture. That would be a real lesson, wouldn't it?

    Reply
    1. Jan van der Zanden

      I think so too. The interrogations still mainly reveal processes and actors. Sometimes very fascinating and even revealing. But it doesn't get to the heart of the problem.
      The reports and sometimes reflections in the media will not lead to substantial improvements. This is mainly about “couldn't measures, including vaccination, have been taken sooner/faster/severe”?

      And the Commission also seems to be mainly on that path.

      That is why I fear that Schipper's shocking “it is not mathematics” and “the decision is up to politicians” statements will not lead to the Commission's finding that the policy was disproportionate, no matter how sharp the questions were.

      Only Romy Quint had fundamental criticism of the policy principles. But yes, she was not at the controls... And she did not have an eloquent, well-crafted argument about the "moral blackmail" of the ICs over society as a whole. The Commission did ask further questions, it had an opportunity to substantiate this, but it did not have it ready. She also wanted to adhere to the rules with her Foundation to avoid any hassle.

      Maurice de Hond will certainly discuss the content. I think so too, Mona Keijzer. The question is what remains of this in the final conclusions.

      Reply

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