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20 Comments
  1. Jean

    Clearly explained, thanks! I can imagine that this arithmetic intervention will lead to structural undermortality in the future if the effects fade out. Fortunately, not all institutes are so free with statistical interpretation. I am curious to see how RIVM will justify this (in retrospect) when there is a better picture of the seriousness of the case internationally.

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  2. HermanK

    15% oversterfte. Betekent dat dan ook dat we binnenkort weer met 62 met pensioen mogen? Lagere levensverwachting betekent toch minder pensioenuitkeringen, dus de pensioenleeftijd kan weer naar de 62-65 jaar?

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  3. Hans

    Could it perhaps be considered to delete Mr Brug's scientific qualifications? These trivial approaches are still manageable for a mediocre high school student.
    Pun : this man's titles are a Bridge too far

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    1. Anton Theunissen

      I don't understand how he gets 'expected mortality' out of his pen either.

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  4. Cees Mul

    Crystal clear. As of 2020, we are around 170,000 on an annual basis. Before that, around 150,000 deaths per year for a very long time. Looking further back around 140,000. Slow increase is logical given the aging population. But the plateau that will arise from 2020 onwards is not normal.
    I wonder what motivates the RIVM. 2 possibilities:
    1. they think they're doing a really good job, or
    2. They purposefully try to mask the facts.
    Option 1 is unlikely. Then the level would be very low. Option 2 is the most obvious. So then a conscious effort is made to cover up the facts. This means that people realize that something is not right. So there is something to hide. Can we call that disinformation? We sometimes almost laugh about it, but isn't it really very disturbing that official bodies are trying to manipulate us in such a transparent way?
    There is now a lot of fuss about monkeypox again, and it seems that the bastards are kicking in again. But all those deaths in their own country? You don't hear about that in MSM. Wappie talk.

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    1. Hans

      Hi Cees, you put your finger on the sore spot regarding the actions of the RIVM, but what I want to ask you is whether you use the term 'bastards' from their (RIVM's) point of view or from your own.

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      1. Cees Mul

        Ha, I mean that such agencies probably see 'us' as 'bastards' who are easy to deceive. There is a disdain that is very similar to the way serfs were treated in the past. It seems that a majority of the people (the rabble, the gray) are totally disconnected from the various agendas that are nevertheless driven by this elite.

        During the Covid period, there was also talk about unvaccinated people as if they needed to be informed. They didn't quite understand. Well, I think they understood it very well:-).

        At the same time, I think it's often about disguising inability. Hugo's rent measures (he probably didn't make that up himself) lead to even fewer rental properties. A woke agenda to create more tolerance actually leads to less tolerance and more irritation. Campaigns to encourage people to vaccinate lead to less willingness to vaccinate. I wonder what the causes of these phenomena are. An ever-expanding government is certainly part of that.

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    2. Theo

      Option 3: RIVM does this 'on commission' (not formally of course) from the government, more specifically the Ministry of Health. During corona, this department was politically managed by Hugo de Jonge and Ernst Kuipers respectively. Both politicians have something to hide...

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      1. Pyotr

        The National Institute for Public Health and the Environment (RIVM) is part of the government and only investigates matters if Public 'Health' asks for it.

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    3. Willem

      I think that it is no different at the RIVM than at other organizations, that is that the conclusion is known in advance and is not questioned by the employee because that is considered 'unprofessional' (Read: THAT IS NOT ALLOWED), after which employees do everything they can to confirm that conclusion, including deceiving themselves. It is consciously unconscious.

      Think of it as a relationship that someone enters into with another person of whom he may know in advance that he should not enter into the relationship. But it's just the choice (the conclusion stands), and then it goes on and on and on (finding evidence that the relationship works). Or as they said about domestic violence in the Sire video: it doesn't stop, not by itself.

      The employees of organizations that pretend that excess mortality is quite normal (such as RIVM) are perpetrators and victims at the same time. This makes it so difficult (for them) to get out, while it is obvious to an outsider (like us who respond here) that the conclusion (such as that there is no more excess mortality) should never have been set in advance.

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      1. Arnoud

        In addition: victims of violence, for example, who do not have the opportunity to adequately address that problem, often unconsciously take it out on other dependents who point it out or at least do not accept the 'normality' of it (clearly enough) because otherwise the psychological suffering is no longer bearable for those victims. That has to be expressed in one way or another. Externalizing so towards the 'wappies' or vice versa with e.g. The ultimate result is suicide, unfortunately.

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    4. Sander

      Right, you mention the key question, which I regularly ask myself. Namely short and to the point: are they that stupid or are they that bad. As far as I'm concerned, they can choose for themselves, I'd love to hear the answer. This question also applies to a lot of the politicians, scientists etc involved

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  5. LN

    A few questions about that quote (i.e. to Prof. Dr. Ir. Brug):
    – "the trend before the corona pandemic" – the trend of expected (with one -t) mortality (which is now calculated differently by RIVM than before, both in terms of median and in terms of the size of the margins) or the trend of actual mortality? Or well, does it matter. It's almost the same, that's just it.
    – 'absolute mortality' – is 'actual mortality' meant in this context? Or what is relative mortality? Deaths per 100,000 inhabitants? (But we are not comparing here with other much larger countries, only with a slightly growing number of Dutch inhabitants, 1%.)
    – The 25% highest mortality rates have been excluded from the calculation. So that's – I assume – 13 weeks in each of those 5 years that the calculation is based on. Nevertheless, expectations are rising remarkably. That in itself gives you food for thought! Exactly that means that in addition to the "known/expected" influences (flu, freezing cold, heat wave), there is another influence that was not there before and that continues to exist outside of those peak weeks.
    – We have not known "extreme cold periods" in the past 10 years.
    – how was the trend of the forecast until 2022 calculated by RIVM? Different model?

    That editor's note at the end: strong!

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    1. Anton Theunissen

      The leading prognosis came from Statistics Netherlands (CBS), but RIVM is actually doing what it has always done: Looking at the past few years.
      Yes, that "absolute mortality"... – oh well, that whole quote is rattling. The letter is simply of little quality.

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  6. Hans

    Although this forum is not meant to promote links, I would like to see an exception for an update of Reiner Füllmich's process.
    This man, one of the most outspoken critics of the Corona hype and known for the "Nuremberg tribunal" to be established because of the practices regarding medical treatment in this so-called epidemic, is imprisoned in Germany on the basis of quicksand-based complaints. Really just a political prisoner. Please take a look at his story and respond to it

    https://rumble.com/v5aivg2-statement-of-dr-reiner-fuellmich-update-august-5th-2024.html

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    1. Anton Theunissen

      Looked at. Impressive too, the man has enormous powers of persuasion. I never dared to stand behind him because of his "plandemic" and "good/evil" thinking. He said a lot of things that I really thought differently about. But it could just be true what he claims here. That would be a scandal. Maybe dedicate a piece to it indeed.

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  7. Leonardo

    What I don't understand is the following.

    Both the meta-study by Maxima Medical Center and the extrapolation study by a Canadian university assume excess mortality. Globally 30 million deaths can be divided into 7 million deaths, with, by and iatrogenic acting, 16.9 million deaths due to vaccination and the rest due to social deprivation (hunger, violence, suicides etc). That is extrapolated to the entire world population of 8 billion and you hear this figure from various sides.
    The basis is a comparison of mortality rates in countries representing 2.7 billion people, including the Netherlands. Is it the case that the Canadian university is brushing aside these gossip stories from the RIVM? Or does RIVM report other figures to OurWorldinData, Johns Hopkins University, etc.?
    If the latter were the case, there would be a serious form of bad faith in the neglect of the duties of RIVM and its employees. It is hard to imagine such a thing happening on its own initiative.

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  8. Anton Theunissen

    Studies where 16.9 million deaths from vaccinations...!? (By the way, that also falls under iatrogenic acting, I thought). Do you have any links to those studies? I haven't seen it yet.

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    1. Leonardo

      Via substack, 2nd smartest guy in the world
      https://www.2ndsmartestguyintheworld.com/p/a-new-worldwide-study-finds-there?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=400535&post_id=146842824&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=17pm5c&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email

      Hasn't the Maxima Medical Center also been pressured to revise the findings, to put them into perspective, to water them down? Or did I dream that? That was a meta-study, but even that is not allowed in the Netherlands.
      Problem is Anton, you can only tell your lie 1x well and you don't have to think about the truth. In the end, all this leads to a deep distrust in society and that benefits no one.

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