Presentatietechnieken van RIVM- en CBS-statistici

by Bonne Clock | 30 Dec 2023, 09:12

...or pay via paypal

cards

Reactions

Comments that are not related to the topic of discussion will be deleted. Always keep comments respectful and substantive.

18 Comments
  1. Cees Mul

    It is of course bizarre that deaths among unvaccinated people increase after a vaccination round (the purple line). I think it's relevant to know exactly when someone is considered vaccinated. I don't think it's until after 2 or 3 weeks. Is that still the case? So anyone who dies shortly after an mRNA vaccination is written off as unvaccinated. In this way, as Norman Fenton also stated, you can sell the greatest poison as a safe remedy.
    Isn't that the most logical explanation for an increase in mortality among unvaccinated people immediately after a vaccination round?
    This trick has been used throughout the period, and seems to me to have a huge impact on the graphs above.
    It's becoming quite a complicated story, so maybe my comment is a mistake, but I wanted to mention it anyway.

    Reply
    1. Arnoud

      I think that's still the case, indeed.

      I think this piece is also mainly about how eea is misrepresented (3x word value someone? ;P) which also obscures this. But also, if I understand it correctly (because it is indeed all becoming rather complicated by now), that the significant increase in cardiovascular diseases in particular is being covered up ... And what could be the most obvious cause of this? 🤔 Because it can't be the of course... 🙄🤷🏻‍♂️

      Correct and/or complete me if necessary.

      Reply
      1. Cees Mul

        Ok, thanks for your answers. I think it's 2 different goals that we're talking about. This article is mainly about the techniques used by the RIVM to present things differently than they are. Putting up a smokescreen.
        I'm looking for a logical explanation for the excess mortality, and of course RIVM is not going to provide us with one.
        Then it becomes extremely important to use the correct definitions of 'vaccinated'. That will be one of the challenges of Ronald Meester and Marc Jacobs.

        Reply
    2. Werner

      You're absolutely right. If someone dies within 2 weeks of getting the poison shot, this death is counted as unvaccinated. The above article completely ignores that and that is a blunder.

      3
      1
      Reply
      1. Bonne Clock

        RIVM divides its research into 2 parts. For Vaccination Effectiveness you only count 2 weeks after vaccination.
        In the case of death after vaccination, the day the vaccine is administered counts.

        CBS has not specified this, but I suspect that they use the same data, since they use the same data.

        Reply
      2. Anton Theunissen

        No mistakes. The effect does exist and could have been mentioned, but its share is limited and is mainly relevant when comparing "basic series partially" and "basic series complete". In any case, it is not the case that "unvaccinated" also contains everyone within two weeks of a shot. That's not how it's presented. A statistician friend of mine checked this for us. He says the following about this:

        "I also checked the original RIVM report again (as promised). It is true that on the day of vaccination 1 you immediately switch to status "basic series partially"; and 2 weeks after injection 2 (or 4 weeks after a Janssen injection) switches to "basic series complete". And as mentioned, most of the VE analyses in the report focus on "basic series complete" (and then number of months since basic series complete).

        So anyone who dies before "basic series complete" does not have the status "basic series complete", and that can be up to 2 weeks after injection 2. So (indeed) vaccine-induced mortality shortly after the jab is thus largely hidden. Vaccine-induced mortality shortly after jab 1 falls into the category of "basic series partially". Vaccine-induced mortality shortly after jab 2 also falls into the category of "basic series partially". This no doubt partly explains the significant gap in the reported VE between on the one hand VE of 'basic series partly' versus VE of 'basic series complete m1'. E.g. for VE against covid death, people geb between 1931-1950, 75% vs 98% reported VE. That difference between them is undoubtedly partly due to the fact that vulnerable people died there, in part probably due to either jab 1 or jab 2! So that's where those vaccine-induced deaths are.

        For the rest, the 'larger' effect that influences the VE results is indeed the very large healthy vaccine effect. As a result, the ACM-VE is supposedly 50% over a long period of time. Compared to the really totally unvaccinated."

        Reply
  2. Arnoud

    Can I assume that this response was also sent to the RIVM, CBS and Keulemans? And if so, have they already (or not adequately responded)? Let me guess... Anyway: thanks again, happy New Year's Eve & all the best for 2024 ... what that may yield in terms of statistics on this.

    Reply
    1. Anton Theunissen

      There has never been a reaction from the institutes to anything. They can't remove that lid from the well. Even in woo proceedings, they remain recalcitrant.

      Reply
  3. C de Vries

    Nice analysis again, Bonne

    They don't look beyond what the narrative (Safe and Effective) allows. Sometimes it even seems to be purely aimed at confirming this narrative. The will to know what's going on, to do science, is lacking.

    https://photos.app.goo.gl/f1h8yxuUgJViEpk58

    I think the determination of the cause of death by the medical examiner is also strongly influenced by the narrative at play (in which Covid 19 is a horrible deadly disease for everyone! and vaccination is the only remedy).

    Autopsies that could give a definite answer are done less and less in the Netherlands, almost none. In Germany and Finland it still is
    Remarkably enough, Covid deaths are still being reported there recently (see our world in data) in Finland (don't know if this will turn out to be vaccination damage on further histological examination).

    1
    1
    Reply
  4. Godfather

    In my opinion, a graph showing the number of ambulance trips or 112 calls for medical reasons, versus the number of injections, would also speak volumes. I felt like the fall got out of hand during the campaigns. Correct for smoothness of course:)

    Reply
  5. Pyotr

    We always learned that about 85 percent of the adult population had been vaccinated at least once by the end of 2021. But administratively, over the whole of 2021, no more than 40 percent of the population had been vaccinated. And you have to use this figure to make a better calculation of 'effectiveness shots'.
    Namely, 15 percent were never vaccinated. With Janssen that the young people received in May, June, you were only considered vaccinated after four weeks and people who received the two injections fit weeks after the second shot. Most adults in their fifties and fifties were not vaccinated until July and were therefore not 'vaccinated' until August. Elderly people who got their shot in January were no longer considered vaccinated six months later if they didn't take the next shot, which was still based on the Wuhan, by the way.
    Dit lage gemiddelde inentingspercentage heeft veel meer een dempend effect op de effectiviteitscijfers dan wat in het artikel beschreven wordt. In 2022 was het inentingspercentage nog lager omdat gezonde zestigminners (uiteindelijk) niet meer werden ingeënt

    Reply
    1. Anton Theunissen

      Definitely, although I don't remember the exact content. It was a beautiful voyage of discovery by Martijn Poels, I still remember that.

      Reply
  6. Jan van der Zanden

    Hi Anton, I've already done that for you with WOO request:
    ======================
    CBS 4 Scientific questions about Excess Mortality Survey December 2023

    Following the research published by you on December 11, 2023, I have the following comments and questions. https://www.cbs.nl/nl-nl/longread/rapportages/2023/oversterfte-en-doodsoorzaken-in-2020-tot-en-met-2022?onepage=true
    Questions
    You conclude (1) that mortality from Covid-19 is positively associated with "Lower mortality"; That seems plausible.
    You also conclude (2) that mortality from "Other causes" has no correlation with vaccination status. That is what my questions are about.
    You have used a rather restrictive definition of “Vaccinated”. See appendix *: only 2 or 4 weeks after the full series of vaccinations instead of after at least one vaccination, which is much more logical for such a conclusion.
    You announce the definition of the vaccination status in paragraph 2.5.2. indicates that you have also used a vaccination status without a waiting period of 2 resp. 4 weeks. However, this is not reflected in the research.
    I would like to hear from you how this conclusion (2) can be scientifically justified if:
    1. the “Vaccinated” status has been used so restrictively?
    2. what the outcome is if the restrictions of 2 resp. 4 weeks is omitted?
    I also have the following questions:
    3. How do you explain that mortality from causes other than Covid-19 can be lower with vaccination than without vaccination, while vaccination is not indicated for this?
    4. Finally, I would like to see a regression analysis, possibly. with substantiated population corrections, between the two variables
    “All cause mortality” and “Vaccinated status”,
    where “Vaccinated Status” is defined as “vaccinated at least once”.
    A further breakdown of that regression analysis based on the above-mentioned definition you used and your definition is of course fine with me.
    I request you to provide a scientifically sound answer to these questions.
    WOO Request
    In view of the great importance of this, I may assume that you have already carried out the research internally (overall or in draft/sketch), as stated in Question 4 above.
    If you do not answer my above-mentioned question, I request you to provide me with the results of that (possibly global draft/sketchy) investigation as soon as possible.

    * Status vaccinated
    Vaccination status 'vaccinated' is defined as 'fully vaccinated' (i.e. two weeks after two approved vaccinations, or a positive test at least 56 days before at least one approved vaccination, or four weeks after vaccination where one vaccination counts as fully vaccinated according to the vaccination certificate, or when a booster or repeat vaccination has been administered without a known basic series) possible with boosters and repeat vaccinations. Vaccination status 'unvaccinated' is defined as no vaccination known or only one vaccination known without previously reported infection (with the exception of the vaccine where one vaccination counted as fully vaccinated).
    ** Additional analysis
    An additional analysis has been carried out in which the definition of vaccination status does not take into account the criterion of two or four weeks. This means that people were counted as vaccinated immediately after full vaccination, without the need for a two- or four-week time difference.

    Reply
    1. Anton Theunissen

      Great, Jan. I'm very curious about the answer! Will you please keep me informed?

      Reply
      1. Jan van der Zanden

        I'll be sure to let you know. However, I fear that such a "sensitive" question, just like that cost-benefit analysis at the Ministry of Economic Affairs and Climate Policy that I eventually received and contained staggering information, will also take another year......

        Reply
  7. frans van den berg

    Clever but far too complicated for 'the common man'. How are you supposed to find your way through all that reporting? The largest group hits you over the head with Keuleman's reporting, they don't look any further on e.g. this site, or on youtube to e.g. Campbell. I've read too many personal stories that are in line with my intuition to trust the vaccine. There doesn't seem to be a definitive answer from researchers. Or is that already there?

    Reply
    1. Anton Theunissen

      It's certainly way too complicated for 'the common man'... And I won't waste any more words about that follower.
      But 'definitive', do you mean that the guilty will confess?

      Reply

Post a Comment

Je e-mailadres wordt niet gepubliceerd. Required fields are marked with *