After 2021, the vaccinated in particular caused excess mortality

by Hans Verwaart | 6 Apr 2023, 20:04

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9 Comments
  1. Jos Ouwehand

    Dear Anton,

    In line 3, the calculation example suddenly speaks of 600 unvaccinated people. This thinking step went too fast for me. At its core, it's about the number of expected deaths among vaccinated people.

    This equivalence is a bit hidden in the 2 previous steps but can be explained more explicitly around the calculation example:
    Suppose that injections do not lead to additional mortality, then the expected number of deaths among vaccinated people is equal to the number of deaths among the unvaccinated.

    Compliments for your efforts,

    Jos

    Reply
    1. Anton (@infopinie)

      Previously, it said "(under the assumption that vaccinations have no effect on mortality)". That's actually your last line as well. But that also led to protests... I have now tightened up the calculation example a little bit. Hope it's better. They are fictitious numbers (those 600 and 540) that calculate easily.

      Reply
  2. Ron Slockers

    Immediately below point 2 at the beginning it says:

    "Using data on vaccination coverage (defined as ever vaccinated) per day, it was calculated what mortality can then be expected per month among vaccinated people (under the assumption that vaccination does not affect mortality);"

    What I would like to know is how the expected mortality was calculated (whether it is about vaccinated or unvaccinated)?
    Based on the average of previous years? Does the composition of the population take into account? After all, if a population grows or ages, the average mortality increases and for that reason you also have to adjust the expectation upwards (which is very well founded).
    Only then do you have a good insight into excess mortality.

    Reply
    1. Anton (@infopinie)

      Hi Ron, the expected mortality is not calculated. After all, the mortality of that day is known and the distribution of whether or not vaccinated is also known, both nationally (vaccination rate) and among deaths (to be deduced from the data).
      Based on the number of unvaccinated deaths, a proportional number of deaths among vaccinated people is expected. That expected number is compared to the actual number.

      Reply
    2. Ron Slockers

      Hi Anton,

      Agreed, that applies to the first paragraph I quoted, but just before the conclusions, the document also states:

      "From July 2021 until the end of the year, excess mortality in the Netherlands amounted to approximately 12,000 people. Over the whole of 2022, that was 14,000 people."

      That is what I am referring to. How is this excess mortality calculated?
      Or are the CBS figures simply used?
      I have previously pointed out via e-mail why I do not consider these figures to be correct.
      The gist of that is in my first reaction.

      Reply
      1. Hans

        At the beginning of the article, the question of whether mortality among (un)vaccinated people is greater or smaller than can be expected on the basis of historical data does not yet matter.

        The vaccination rate determines the expectation of mortality among vaccinated people based on the observed mortality among the unvaccinated.

        Only later is the vaccination rate "played with" by allowing it to fluctuate between 0 and 100%. And then you see that at 0% there would have been under-mortality in 2022 (lower mortality than can be expected based on CBS forecasts), there would have been no under/excess mortality at about 50%, while at the current vaccination rate of 80% there clearly is. Please note only 2022.

        These numbers have been calculated using the CBS figures.

        If I look from the UK figures (i.e. the dark red line, multiplying the percentages of the Y-axis by the population) I arrive at 13,600 excess mortality in 2021 and 12,500 in 2022. So that saves about 10-15%, but yes it's just an approximation.

        Kind regards, Hans

        Reply
  3. Anton (@infopinie)

    Yes, those are roughly the CBS figures (I'll check).

    I don't know exactly how the baseline comes about. There are many ways to get closer to the current reality afterwards, mainly with trend lines (including ageing, etc.). Bonne Clock https://twitter.com/BonneKlok is also on top of that.

    Until 2021, however, the CBS method worked excellently, despite an ageing population that, according to some, would not have been included. See the excess mortality lines in https://virusvaria.nl/oversterfte-breekt-alle-records/

    The discussion is complicated if we begin to question the accuracy of the forecast. So for the time being, we are sticking to mortality figures from CBS. We do fiddle with the with/through Covid relationship, but that's another discussion.

    And sorry if I don't respond to everything in a substantive and adequate way, it's really a matter of lack of 🙁 time

    Reply
  4. Ron Slockers

    For me, it was confirmed in the Corona period that forecasts from, for example, the RIVM and all kinds of other "established bodies" (worldwide) can be considered critical.
    Anyway, in a month or two I will have new figures available and I will come back to this.
    Nevertheless, for the few who still read this thread, if you are interested in my views, please let me know.
    ronslockers@gmail.com

    Reply
    1. Anton (@infopinie)

      You have to consider everything critically. If you also want to discuss, you will have to speak the same language with a number of agreed definitions. If we start at the baseline, we create a new universe in which all basic concepts have a different meaning. Then we will not get to the urgent problem at all. I'll look up your old emails (or email something that has been updated). In itself, I sometimes want to pay attention to 'other points of view'.

      Reply

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